Inside the mind of a GOP apparatchik.
(The party line for hiding their complicity in legitimizing Obama)
"No one likes being fooled", but we must: for the sake of the country (and the peace of GOP's mind).
The following exchange took place between an unknown GOP apparatchik hiding under a screen name Troyriser and me in the frame of the Intense Debate following the article "Deconstructing Obama" about a new book of Jack Cashill. This discussion reveals the amazing "talking points" on the topic, which normally is an absolute taboo in party speak of either party. And it is a taboo because the issue of illegitimacy cannot withstand any honest logical analysis.
In short, here are those talking points (if you are rather not to read this long transcript).
· No one likes being fooled, but you try and see how good it is (Re. the illegitimacy of the pResident!;
· Do not fixate on that obscure issue of the birthplace, because this was exactly the intention of the Obama's handlers to deflect you from the "real problems";
· Forget the non citizens fathers of Obama and all that obscure Law of Nation theory - a mere "paternity", which the electorate just ignores;
· Are we really so crazy assuming that the Congress would ever consider such "hair splitting" casuistic to deposit the impostor before his full term?!
This demagogy is amazing by itself. No doubts it does express the official position of the Republican Party, as it almost copies Karl Rove's words as though "Barack Obama wants Republicans to fall into this trap". And imitates also the so called "conservative" reasoning.
We must spread this ugly testimony and use it as a weapon to finally throw Demo-Republican party into dustbin of history where it belongs.
Troyriser begins the discussion, and his text is highlighted in yellow. My text follows non-highlighted.
won't get out or at least not very far, I'm sorry to say. In my view, the Birthers
are an Axelrod creation. Of course the President was born in the US. However, his birth records and other documentation
have been withheld not because of the red flags that come up when viewing the
President's radical associations and connections but because now anyone who
questions Obama's background or character to any degree, no matter the weight
of the evidence, will be categorized as tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy buff and
dismissed from consideration. Besides, word getting out to the general public
heavily relies upon mainstream media actually doing its job, and I simply
cannot envision that happening. Pravda in the now-defunct Soviet Union was never so much in the tank for
Brezhnev as the American press has been for Obama.
Every step of Obama's ascendancy to the White House has been marked by lies, subterfuge, and outright criminality: the disqualification of all of Obama's opponents to the Illinois state senate; the inexplicable release of Jack and Jeri Ryan's sealed divorce records; the sudden silence of Tony Rezco, who had (until Obama assumed office) begun to sing while in federal custody; the surprise decision of Mayor Daley (!) not to seek another term, allowing Rahm Emanuel to almost effortlessly win the office for himself, and so on. As a country, we haven't seen anything like this since Warren Harding's Ohio Gang.
In fairness to Harding, the crooks surrounding him were just that: corrupt machine politicians. What we are facing now is something far worse: a cadre of hardcore, old-school Marxists, genuine true believers with an agenda and the means and power to achieve it.
entire comment (and especially understanding of the nature of
"Pravda" and the American media), sounds reasonable - except the
statement as though
"the Birthers are an Axelrod creation. Of course the President was born in the US."
Yes, the pejorative term "birther" was invented by those who want to deflect attention from the real issues lying on the very surface and not requiring any birth certificate. The impostor's father was a foreigner. That alone disqualifies him (with many other things). As to where the impostor was born, you must not be so sure. Not only he had not provided any valid proof, but people in Kenya testify that he was born there.
Yes, Mr. Gofen, 'Birthers' is a pejorative term and I chose to use it because people who embrace and promote the notion that Obama is not qualified to be president on that account are:
We can agree the President is not who and what he portrays himself to be, but it seems to me you and yours are serving the purposes of the men who set you on this course in the first place. They set a trap and you fell for it. No one likes being fooled so the impulse is to dig even deeper, but I suggest you stop what you're doing, climb out of the hole, brush off the dirt, and move on.
Thank you Troyriser for the
1) If we can agree that "the President is not who and what he portrays himself", why did you make the statement as though "Of course the President was born in the US"?
2) Unfortunately it is not true as though "No one likes being fooled". Not only too many do, but many even have their stakes in it.
3) Polls show that you are wrong as though only "the smallest fraction" of the citizenry cares about such a "hair splitting thing" as the violation of the constitutional notion unambiguously understood until 2008. And there are also plain criminal violations like fraudulent SS# and other things.
4) True, this fraction of voting public is still shamefully far from 99%. It is so for many reasons, one of which being that you and the like minded folks chose to suppress this scandalous issue. Why? Visibly in order to avoid "playing into the hands of the strategists who masterminded the withholding of Obama's birth records", I guess...
5) If only "the smallest
fraction" of the citizenry in the nation cares about constitutionality of
its president, such nation hardly has the right to exist (even in the role of
banana or rather a "web" republic).
6) It is not "the men who set me on this course", but the shame! The truth, which is precious no matter what. And I will stand on it until I am dead.
7) I do not know if the efforts of those speaking the truth will result in removing the impostor before his term. But I do know that if the impostor stays his full term unpunished, America is dead.
insistence that even though the President was possibly/probably born in the US
yet still is not qualified to be president because of a 'Law of Nations'
interpretation of citizenship is, in my view, pointless hair-splitting
emphatically not "unambiguously understood" until 2008.
So let's face it: you're simply not going to get Obama pulled from office on the basis of the arguments you're making. You're wasting your time. My remark that the President 'is not who and what he portrays himself ' was a reference to Obama's public positioning as a liberal centrist rather than as the Marxist radical strong evidence shows him to be. I wasn't talking about Obama's birth records. His birth records show he was born in Hawaii.
Give it up, please. This Birther business is headed nowhere. You're muddying the waters to no good effect.
truth; or rather, Truth? Here's some truth for you: the President will serve
out his full (and hopefully only) term 'unpunished' for being the son of a
non-American father. And you can stand on what you believe to be the 'precious
truth' of your claim until you are dead. That's entirely your choice. And yes,
you do know that your efforts will not result in the removal of the President
from office -- you must know this on some level, so you get points for
perseverance, but that's about it.
And finally, no, America won't die solely because Obama completes his term. We've endured bad presidents before--Jimmy Carter comes immediately to mind, but there were others, too: Buchanan, Tyler, Fillmore, Harding... We'll survive this one.
That 'until I am dead' comment of yours sticks in the craw. I don't doubt the strength of your convictions, but emotionalism has no place in political argument. Follow the logic, debate the premises and conclusions, but don't for a moment think just because you're willing to die for a given belief somehow magically infuses validity into the arguments supporting that belief.
You are correct only in that validity of arguments relies on proofs, rather than desire to die for them.
· If you agree that "the President is not who and what he portrays himself to be" even in terms of his philosophy, yet don't mind him to stay full term; and
· If you do not even pose the question as to who and what he is personally,
the part of America which
you represent is already dead.
I do not know what will happen with the other parts of the nation. The infamy like this is in orders of magnitude worse than it had ever happened under any of the previous disastrous presidents.
I repeat: a nation which is capable of only to not reelect the criminal, leaving him and his clique unpunished, is not worth of existence. It may continue to name itself America and whichever, but it is not what was founded by the Fathers. And I wish to be no part of it (giving you an opportunity to advise me to leave for good in any direction).
much? Saying things like, "The infamy like this is in orders of magnitude
worse than it had ever happened under any of the previous disastrous
presidents..." makes you sound like something out of an old serial
I assert Obama and his people held onto his birth records for the sole purpose of drawing out the tinfoil hat crowd, thus discrediting those of us who believe the President to be a radical extremist disguised as a traditional Democratic liberal.
And no, I don't advise you to leave. I advise you to stop holding forth on the vagaries and nuances of Law of Nations eligibility rules and move on. Our country needs patriots right now, not picayune obsessives fixated on President Obama's paternity.
Let me see if I follow you. I am trying to continue the list of things you advise the real patriots to not fixate on.
So patriots must not fixate on:
1) Obama's paternity;
2) His Indonesian citizenship and Moslem upbringing;
3) His fraudulent re-immersion into the US, fake SS#, fake Columbia credentials;
4) Total refusal of the authorities to prosecute him for these felonies;
5) Complicity of the former president Bush in overlooking all the above;
6) Complicity of the then (and present) Congress in the same overlooking;
7) Complicity of all big and small parties, especially GOP, in not even challenging the opponent (actually campaigning for him);
8) Complicity of the Supreme Court covering all the above;
9) Complicity of the military brass and their violation of the oath to protect the Constitution (rather than their behinds).
10) Complicity of the American media already not differing from "Pravda".
11) And on the top of it, patriots must agree to be fooled (as a part of patriotism, I guess).
You want the patriots to not
fixate on that all probably because the above mentioned crime accessories were
in an agreement, never had it so good, so the patriots must just not embarrass
them. Right? After all, what is America and the Constitution, its vagaries and nuances vs.
well being of the criminal confederacy of the "Change"?..
I must disappoint you: the patriots will not follow your advice.
Look, President Obama is past the two year mark on his first term. Let's cut to the chase: do you honestly, truly believe you and your like-minded pals can have the current sitting president removed from office on the basis of his parentage? You do? Wow. Okay.
I don't care how meticulously you plumb the intricacies of Constitutional Law, you are simply not going to convince enough legislators to move forward with disqualification hearings on the basis of the evidence you're presenting or the arguments you're making. For example, let's examine your claim that 'some people in Kenya say Obama was born there.' Okay, what people? Are you talking about villagers or high-ranking Kenyan officials? Who are the sources, where is the proof? You put it out there, so back it up. You can't? Color me surprised.
The way to put President Obama in the unemployment is to beat him with the best GOP candidate we have to offer in the next election. You're not helping.
You bet: I do not help the traitors of my country. GOP/Dems both are treasonous wings in de facto one party system owned by the same source.
" ... you are simply not going to convince enough legislators to move forward with disqualification hearings on the basis of the evidence you're presenting or the arguments you're making." - I do not know the future (nor do you). If here is not one legislator willing to uphold the Constitution and Law, this country is not worth of existence.
Impostor "Obama is past the two year mark on his first term." - This fact alone is an infamy: the infamy made possible by the citizens and politicians like you.
"Do you honestly, truly believe you and your like-minded pals can have the current sitting president removed from office on the basis of his parentage?" - Really: what a negligible thing this parentage! Some obscure constitutional trick so that racists could disenfranchise minorities and fraudsters with fake everything... Disregarding what I believe, I will keep the truth being heard - whichever uncomfortable it is for GOP's water carriers.
"For example, let's examine your claim that 'some people in Kenya say Obama was born there.' Okay, what people? Are you talking about villagers or high-ranking Kenyan officials? Who are the sources, where is the proof? You put it out there, so back it up." - I am not particularly interested about his birthplace. His wrong parentage, or if you wish to ignore it, his fake SS# alone is enough to prosecute him. And it is his burden to prove that he is at least an ordinary US citizen producing not a fake certification, but the full birth certificate. And yes, there exist testimonies of his birth in Kenya: from his old granny still living in Kenya to some of Kenya's officials. Oh yes, there was also (a questionable?) copy of his Kenya B.C. obtained by some Lucas Smith certifiably delivered to all 535 members of the rotten Congress.
the President as candidate was not required to publicly produce his birth
certificate in order to meet constitutional eligibility requirements. That he
chose to submit the necessary documentation privately and that his state of
birth, Hawaii, affirms his birth in that state
evidently met the standard.
Why did Obama handle something so mundane as birth records in such a peculiar way? I contend he did so upon the advice of his political strategists, who knew the paranoid fringe would immediately jump to the conclusion that a cover-up was in the works, creating a lot of conspiracy gabble and murk that would tend to stifle legitimate criticism, and--sure enough--his strategists were right. Here you are.
A candidate perhaps is not required, but the party's leaders, secretaries of States and other officials ought to vet and certify all papers of the candidate for the highest post: To vet at least as much as they vet an applicant for a security positions. And the Resume of this "candidate" would not qualify him even to maintain toilets of the White House. The outrage is exactly in that the party's leaders et cetera neglected their duty, and made it possible for the impostor to campaign, be elected and certified without any papers.
"Hawaii, affirms his birth in that state evidently met the standard": which standards? Definitely yours, because you already assured everybody about the impostor's birthplace – even though the present Governor of Hawaii is not sure any more, and another Hawaii clerk affirmed that no Obama's birth certificate had been ever kept in Hawaii's registrar.
As to "strategists" of the impostor "who were right" in deflecting the "legitimate criticism", aren't you one of them? If the wrong parentage and violations of the Constitution is not legitimate enough for you, I have mentioned also plain felonies like fake SS#. There are numerous counts of criminal indictment presented by the American Grand Jury, by the Pastor's Manning trial , and by various attorneys, Dr. Orly Taitz being the most prominent: all deliberately ignored by the rotten Congress, rotten Supreme Court, and by other officials. And yes, there do exist witnesses of his Kenyan birthplace. You are going out of your skin to defend the lie, the 800 pound gorilla in the White House. Already many "kids" in the crowd shouted "Behold, the emperor has no cloth!" However the cheerleaders like you commissioned to run the show want them to shut up….
At this place the polemic stopped. It is interesting in that it reveals the strategy and the state of mind in the treasonous GOP brass, and how they hope to hide their complicity in the anti-Constitutional coup forever: "No one likes being fooled", but we all must - for the sake of the country (and the peace of GOP's mind, I guess).
asked if he could speak on the issue (birther movement), but that isn't
something we're interested in,"
she told. "It would fill a room. But so would a two-headed monkey.
There really are so many more important issues, and it's only a three-day
Follow this corrupted logic: The [former] leader of the so called "conservatives" does acknowledge that the issue of illegitimacy of the pResident is as odd as a two-head monkey indeed (because it exemplifies the most conspicuous violation of the Constitution at the highest level). Yet for the "conservatives" it is just a "room filling sensation" rather than a crime of the millennium undermining the very foundations of the nation and requiring the most drastic actions.
P.S. This is one more confirmation of the GOP treason and cynicism in the article of Diana West: